Taipei Discussion of Sustainable Economy

Participants: Mary, Clark aka Superman, Fanny, Angela

I like team b and e, but not the others, because they emphasize money. but they also make pollution, which damages how you live, so you can’t really be wealthy.
But the problem is, if you want to develop your economy, it causes pollution.

I choose team b and d, because both money and quality of life are important. But team a only emphasizes money, so I didn’t chose a, and team e is the highest level of requirement for societal wealth, so I only choose the minimum requirement.

You’re setting the bar lower, to make it easier to achieve!


The reason I think money and quality are important. If we only emphasize economic growth, people may live in low quality of life, and the crime rate might rise, and also will create many political problems, that in turn will make negative effect on our economic growth. If at the same time, people have the minimum living standard, there are will be many problem that come up, like, even for people living rural area, they really have a good quality of life, but they don’t have much money to sustain their minimum living standards, so they maybe hostile to wealthy people. So it think both of them are necessary.

Well, I don’t know which team I belong to, but I think to make a society wealthy, people have to be satisfied with what they have. I think the point is that to make people content with what they have and what they can use right now, because I think, with good quality of life, lots of money, good economy, that’s like material stuff, that’s just a material point of view. But we just have to be content.

So you are team W.

But that’s just another point of view, because I think the teams which Angela lists here is from the material side.

Yes, I did do that, thinking it would be easier to talk about material things.

I think we are not the only ones to think about the answer to this question. Also president ma and the minister of the economy are thinking about this. Actually I don’t think from team a to team b can make the people wealthy. But if I need to choose one, I’ll choose team b. for the person, first, they have the money, second, they know how to use the money to make their life better, then they have good quality of life and everyone becomes more wealthy. I totally agree with Willie’s opinion. We need to be satisfied with the things we have. And I want to share some suggestion I read, and a few days ago I bought a magazine. The title of the magazine, if you want to be rich, they have some ways. From the start to the end, there are five steps. Step one is relax. You have to let go of pressure to make money. it won’t be that long. The second suggestion is spend less, for example on necessities. Don’t also go and buy starbucks coffee. The third step is we need to save more money. and the next step is, make more money, and the last step is give more. If we have a tender heart, and help other people, this helps too. So it’s not just focus on the physical items, include your hearth, you can become rich.

But I think there has to be minimum level of income and garbage/shit dispersal

But in Nepal, you don’t need a flush toilet.

Okay, so appropriate for the area you’re in. Nepalese maybe can have no flush toilet, and its still sanitary, since there’s few people and a lot of land. But in Taipei, a flush toilet is essential.

But it’s also what you get used to. Before I used to walk to school and that was fine. But when I got used to a bicycle, I could never go back to walking.

Actually, you can go back when you have a strong reason to go back.

Maybe the best way is to show them that, if we go back to a simpler life, it will not destroy our standard of living.
Because so many people don’t want to change their behavior.

Exactly! I don’t want to give up electricity!

Could you give up air conditioning

I think you shouldn’t have to work when it’s too hot, or should be allowed to wear very cool clothes.


Western workers are more efficient?

Vice president of google has written that he has visited Taiwan and china a lot, and said he found that workers usually have many affairs not related to their work during their working time. But in the US, the habit is to only deal with work things during work.

I don’t know which is better.

Many workers in Taiwan complain about the long work hours in Taiwan, but because those boss have taking this kind of low level of work


How you spend your life is quality of life.

Do you agree with question no. 2?

When we look at how the world bank puts a grade on a country, they will not just talk about economic growth, but also on gvt efficiency, quality of environment, how convenient the city. Take India for instance. Some analysis think if India want to keep growing economically, there are a big problem on their hard infrastructure, their water utility system is not developed. So it’s all the components of society are important.

I the economy cannot be fixed totally be economists. I think we need to fix the economy. I think every behavior in the world, we can regard them as the economy. We buy something, we sell something. I think the economy is everything.

So how does everyone help fix the economy.


Closing statements:
I think economy is complicated, it also means price of oil, price of food etc. I hope the next four years, the gvt can create a good economic environment, and everyone can do the thing they want to do. If I have time, I also want to open a restaurant. That’s my conclusion.

I think from today’s discussion, I think economy’s a kind of, a must know field people have to know during their life. When people think economy, they think money. but it’s also the reflection of our life. The basic principles of our life, even if they are not exchanged through money, it’s also the economy. The ecology and money, as you mentioned here. Economics classes mention the limited resources, and unlimited desire. We don’t have to pay money sometimes, but we pay with our future. That’ why we have to learn the economy, because in Taiwan, people don’t have a sense of the economy, so they see really short-sighted. Kind of irrelevant, just like those farmers growing fruit. If like in summer, the most expensive fruit is guava, next season every one grows guava next season, so then it’s a huge waste, and it gets thrown out or at politicians. It’s what we have to learn, as a common sense, like we learn when we’re really young. It’s not just models and calculations. It’s a sense of it, we have to analyze it economically.

Someone needs to make an MPM system for economics.

I really don’t like doing calculations, because they interfere with my intuition.

And if I have money, I would invest in that course.

I could write, economics for dummies.

Or for gradeschool kids!

I want to second Willie. If people understand economics, it will make the world work better. And my conclusion is that, for the whole society, to achieve the high quality of life, and the sustainable standard of living, is both important. But for our self, everyone should be satisfied with what he has own now if these two parts can be run well, that will make society wealthy. I think today we learn a lot on how to make our dreams come true, from angela's experience, so I think everyone can try to make the first step, to go to change our society.

So I learned a lot today, the class is really fantastic tonight, I learned a lot.